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Week1-Live-Session

Page history last edited by Aiden Yeh 11 years, 2 months ago

 


 

Click here to listen/watch the recording

Jan 15, 2009, [Thu] 05:32 PM Eastern (EST, North America/US) (03:48:11)[7.2337 MB]

 


Katya Nemtchinova's Slides

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TEXT CHAT OF THE LIVE SESSION

 

Joined on 2009年1月16日 at 上午 7:26

Session Leader: Aiden Yeh

Session Leader 1: Brock Brady

Session Leader 2: Katya Nemtchinova

Note: Order is based on who came in first in Learning Times

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Moderator (Session Leader): hi there

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Moderator (Session Leader): we're testing our audio set-up

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Moderator (Session Leader): perhaps you can do the same?

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Moderator (Session Leader): please tell us your name and where you're from

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader): thanks

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Moderator (Session Leader): Hi Horacio!

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Moderator (Session Leader): we haven't started yet!

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Moderator (Session Leader): don't worry

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Moderator (Session Leader): we will start in about 10 minutes

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Moderator (Session Leader): let's wait for others to arrive

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racebis [undisclosed]: OK- I`ll wait

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Moderator (Session Leader): thanks!  

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racebis [undisclosed]: Who are you?

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Moderator (Session Leader): Hi Benjamin!

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Moderator (Session Leader): pls. write something on the whiteboard

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: hi

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mireille [mireille]: me

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mireille [mireille]: i don't hear Benjamin

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: can you hear me?

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mireille [mireille]: no

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): no

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racebis [undisclosed]: I don`t have audio

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Moderator (Session Leader): it's ok  

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Moderator (Session Leader): just use the text box, Doris

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racebis [undisclosed]: Who is the moderator?

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Aiden Yeh

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Moderator (Session Leader): sorry haven't done my intros yet  

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racebis [undisclosed]: Nice to see you, Aiden

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racebis [undisclosed]: Good picture

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: Hi everyone. This is Davi from State College, PA

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Moderator (Session Leader): hi Davi

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Hi, Davi! Nice to meet you! Do you have a picture of yourself?

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Moderator (Session Leader) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: should we start mods

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): sure

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Yes!

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader): loud and clear

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mireille [mireille]: yes

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Moderator (Session Leader): please release the mic

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: sorry!

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Moderator (Session Leader): thanks!

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Moderator (Session Leader): that's ok  

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: couldn't hear you Davi

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racebis [undisclosed]: I don`t have sound

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Moderator (Session Leader): bejamin, perhaps turn up the speakers

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Moderator (Session Leader): move it to the right, speaker level that is

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mireille [mireille]: i'm unable to hear anything

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: Hi everyone I just jumped in no mic but i hope it's ok

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Moderator (Session Leader): that's ok

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Moderator (Session Leader): Welcome!

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: thanks!

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Moderator (Session Leader) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: can we start mods?

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Sure

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yep

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Tell me when to start

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mireille [mireille]: hello

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Moderator (Session Leader): hi there

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: I am recording cause I can't hear

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes- that's a common comment

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Moderator (Session Leader): please hold it for awhile so we could see it

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Moderator (Session Leader): lots of awards

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes- that's true

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Moderator (Session Leader): encourage networking! yes that's what we're doing

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes! Suresh!

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Thanks!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: when will Mahboob's book be out?

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Moderator (Session Leader): claps hands for Brock!

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Moderator (Session Leader): lots of proposals

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader): that's what we're doing this week

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Moderator (Session Leader): tommy and violeta have posted some ads already

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: wow that template is great!

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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rabiael [rabia]: hi everybody, this rabia from Morocco

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: but i posted a good one.

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Moderator (Session Leader): we will provide the link later

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: I got back and  following you now

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes, that too, tommy  

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Aiden, is there any way that Katya's audio could be louder?

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Moderator (Session Leader): turn up the speaker volume

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racebis [undisclosed]: Hi Rabia. Are you angry?

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Moderator (Session Leader): move it to the right

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: It is all the way up

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: brava!

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rabiael [rabia]: how can i talk?

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Moderator (Session Leader): please release the mic, Katya, thanks

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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racebis [undisclosed]: I`d like to know

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes, you have the mic now

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Katya -- has the template been used at all yet?

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): yes

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes!

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Hi rabia

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Moderator (Session Leader): hi Rabia

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: We can hear you, Rabia!

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: I acn hear you Rabiael

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Moderator (Session Leader): we're happy that you're here

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Moderator (Session Leader): why?

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Moderator (Session Leader): ok

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Moderator (Session Leader): please release the mic after speaking, thanks  

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): rabia, we are glad you're here

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: excellent

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Moderator (Session Leader): you're welcome

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Katya -- has the template been used yet that you know of?

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: how can I listen to the recording?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: just want to say thanks, Katya.

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Moderator (Session Leader): mic please

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): I believe it has been used,

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: I've downloaded the template, but haven't needed it yet

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: tumtum tum

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: luckily

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): I hope you'll never need it at all!

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): however with linguist list, TESOL's ED wrote a formal letter asking to

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): desist from publishing discriminatory ads//

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: that was an excellent letter!

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Katya - in addition to the template -- what do you think will be the most effective ways of changing the direction of the discourse re: NNEST/NEST?

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Moderator (Session Leader): or brock?

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Brock Brady's Session: What's in a Name?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: I too am one of thse people who longs for the day that the terms are obsolete: your thoughts?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Thank you!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Yes, I am wondering the same thing

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I like the BEST suggestion --- Brock?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: I see so much evidence that they are already arbitrary and useless

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Yes!  Please!!  

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Moderator (Session Leader): the most challenging part?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: Recently in a panel discussion, I heard Paul Nation suggest STEs: Skilled Teachers of English.

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: that sounds good

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: and SUEs: Skilled Users of English

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Not a bad idea--I'll add it to the list.

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Katya -- one last question -- how do you feel about "native speakers" joining the NNEST-IS?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: great question

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Moderator (Session Leader): there's sense of belongingness

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes, we do

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): sssh!

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol

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Moderator (Session Leader): secret...

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: funny

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: If I have to, I'll pretend I am FRENCH canadian

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: posers

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: Formidable!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: merci

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: congratz!

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Thank your all.

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: congrats!

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: Thank you

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rabiael [rabia]: hi

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: BZZZZZZZZZZZT!

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geekyteacher [undisclosed]: hi!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: see it

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: ooooo.... pretty

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Moderator (Session Leader): it is

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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rabiael [rabia]: lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes, but I can't pronounce it

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: NonNativeEnglishSpeakingTeachers

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Moderator (Session Leader): i thought it meant non-native english speakers in tesol

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): sorry1

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geekyteacher [undisclosed]: NonNative English Speaking Teachers

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Moderator (Session Leader):  

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: ron native english speaking teacher

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: thats how I use it in my research

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: i've always just articulated the letters

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: so -- ananest?

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): next

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: N-N-E-S-T

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: AMEN!

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Moderator (Session Leader): amen!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen] to tommynomad [undisclosed]: hmm... I could be a non-NNEST (non-ananest?)

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: rrrgggh

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: past bad experiences

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: proficiency

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): proficiency--what's enough?

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: authenticity

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: I think too often we blame communication problems on 'the people with an accent"

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: some people say -- cultural understanding?

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: low salaried

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: sorry for not talking: lunchtime here

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: it shouldn't

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: modeling

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: *crickets chirping*

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racebis [undisclosed]: Tommy, enjoy your meal

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: nnests are uniquely able to understand their students' journey

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: acoustical benefits

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: in a world where most NNESs are using English with other NNES, native modeling doesn't really apply though, does it?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: tyvm

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: are you saying the "native like accent" is unachievable? -- or just an unreasonable goal?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: maybe undefinable

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: amen

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): are we here?

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: excellent actors and actresses have succeded performimg classical anglo characters...and they are from different cultures

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: yes!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: but how much of the burden of self-defeating attitudes is on us?

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racebis [undisclosed]: I am

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Moderator (Session Leader): true

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: Good point.  See it everyday

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Moderator (Session Leader): right

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: me too

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: exactly

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Moderator (Session Leader): true

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: thanks, Davi

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: true, Davi

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rabiael [rabia]: i agree

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: a MEST?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]:  

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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Moderator (Session Leader): i agre

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rabiael [rabia]: lol

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Moderator (Session Leader): agree

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: it means 'manure' in Dutch

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: that was yours!  

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Moderator (Session Leader): oh no

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: got it!  

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Moderator (Session Leader 1) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: nest slide maybe

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol, tommy!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: no audio....

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: are u there?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: ok

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rabiael [rabia]: no idea who came with the name

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: linguists

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: Makarere conference?

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: Linguists

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: yep!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: the OTHER

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: ooooooooo

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Chomsky -- Hymes?

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: I'd say Chomsky

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Moderator (Session Leader): Brock?

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: the "ideal native speaker"

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: no audio

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rabiael [rabia]: no audio here too

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Poor old Chomsky -- really took a beating from Paikeday

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: yes

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: yes

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rabiael [rabia]: yes

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: no sweaters

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: makes sense

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: we need a whole new lingo

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: native speaking teachers who wanted to keep their dominance over nnest teachers...

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: school administrators!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahaha

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: sad, but true

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Pamela yes.

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: sigh

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: more othering

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rabiael [rabia]: i guess in USA since there are a lot of minorities

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Moderator (Session Leader): Davi says school administrators

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: hahaha

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: America  feeling threatened....?

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: assmilationists

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rabiael [rabia]: lol

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahahahaha

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: ointment

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rabiael [rabia]: for not finding a better one

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: they reimagined it

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I can't seem to figure out how to ask for permission to talk...

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: hand up icon

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I did, but it's not working?

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Moderator (Session Leader): Pamela, click the hand up icon

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Medgyes seemed very amenable to the term

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Moderator (Session Leader): back to topic, borck?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: othering

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: creates a divide that isn't really there -- or shouldn't be

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: no real measureable basis

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): negative prefix?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: identity

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: good answer

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geekyteacher [undisclosed]: discrimination?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes Davi: too many of us prove there is no either/or here

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: yes, the cycle continues -- there are enough who have re-imagined or reconstituted the term so that it is not offensive

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: but where is the line between discrimintation and identity?

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: but we gotta start somewhere!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: and they keep using it

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: I have a question about this term

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes, Karen

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: and the research keeps using it...

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: Do you think it's possible to associate NNEST label with more positive meanings?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: and so we all keep using it

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: by educating people

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: isn't it all about marketing?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: and branding?

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: so much negative connotatios are made with the label

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: the point really is how the term is perceived and interpreted if we can change it to more positive way then we can still use the label?

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: thanks

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: that's a great question Masakazu

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: so true  

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: which native?  Jamaica?  Canada?  Namibia? Hong Kong?

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: NNESMartians?

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: Or worse yet, that only NNSs can join in!

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: not so true...without the terms, people still care...

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Moderator (Session Leader): same thing here in Taiwan

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: Lots of male feminists out there

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: In Argentina, parents value having NESTs and they have no clue about these acronyms...

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: which is why we need to develop a reliable way to assess teacher performance..

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: Amen to that!

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rabiael [rabia]: true

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: that doesn't include the "native speaker" qualification

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Yes!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: isn't it funny that we get to say Queer, but tnot the "N" word?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I don't say queer

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: Queer Studies?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: or the n word

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: and I don't think I can call someone a NNS if I am a NS.

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Moderator (Session Leader): right

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: Maybe any new acronym should highlight the learning process NNESTs have successfully completed.

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: it's the right of the insider/outsider

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: translinguistic teachers (Motha)

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: it would immediately ID them as having accomplished something NES haven't

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Moderator (Session Leader): lost audio?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: oooooo Motha

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: good stuff

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: Skilled User/TEacher

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: multilicompetent

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: cook

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: vague

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daviowa [Davi]: Some people have never been out of their own country

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: maybe they haven't left their home ocuntry

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: country

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: nations don't equal languges?

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Go Aiden

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: How bout -- intercultural? (Kramsch) or Interlinguistic

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rabiael [rabia]: i agree Aiden

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Trans also seems like a crossover connotation

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Masakazu [Masakazu]: you don't change but you add to what's already there is that what you mean Aiden?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: those aren't negative in my vocab

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): That's what I was thinking!

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Raise your hand if you identify as an NNEST?

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: Me either trans fats are not good  

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PamelaArraras [Pamela]: sorry about that

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol Pamela

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes, pamela, my husband says not to eat anything with transfat!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: My ID shifts, though.  I'm a NEST when I apply for jobs, and an NNEST in my classroom.

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: poser

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: not necessarily

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: that was to Tommy

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: jk

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: you *could* have undertaken sufficient study to have the same skills as NNESTs

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: no sweaters

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): comments?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: isn't it funny how the tables are turned?

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Moderator (Session Leader): Brock?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yay Karen's definition!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]:  

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Moderator (Session Leader): Davi?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: many studies done on how the collaboration  makes us better

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: different, not better

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: maybe just not too many

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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daviowa [Davi]: makes sense

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: then we can learn more here than we would with other NESTs right, Brock?

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Moderator (Session Leader): tommy?

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daviowa [Davi]: I do think it's important

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Moderator (Session Leader): hi

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Sorry, Im still learning about the controls

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]:  

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daviowa [Davi]: Great comment

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Moderator (Session Leader): that was Tom

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: ty

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: tommy

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): Sorry

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: ok

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Moderator (Session Leader): last audio, Rabia

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lost you, Rabia!

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: can't hear you Rabiae

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): sorry, my fautl  try now

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): nothing

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Moderator (Session Leader): ok Rabia

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: audio ok now

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Moderator (Session Leader): you have the mic now

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): rabia?

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Moderator (Session Leader) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: brock, proceed?

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): rabia go!

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Moderator (Session Leader): go ahead Rabia

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: yessssss

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daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: yes

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Thank you for kind welcoming type words, but if I may... I think that NNESTs really should be the experts in the field here --- the NS should be learning from  all of you

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): no

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahah

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: didn't

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): oh well...

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: nope -- but we hear you now

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: repeat your point please reabeia

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): repeat please

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: tyvm

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: one of the things I think both native and non-native teachers (what ever that means) should collaborate on is defending the quality of our teaching, the awareness about intercultural issues that now more than ever exist...

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: ty

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: that's all

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): kaz

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader) to daviowa [Davi]: make sure to send it to 'the room' and not just to session moderators

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader) to daviowa [Davi]: otherwise, we will the only ones who could see your text chat

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): kaz?

---------------------

Masakazu [Masakazu]: I'm tyring to type something but

---------------------

daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: it won't allow me to send to the room, for some reason. sorry!

---------------------

Masakazu [Masakazu] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: it keeps

---------------------

Masakazu [Masakazu] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: disappering

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: no audio here

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: can't hear you again

---------------------

Masakazu [Masakazu] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: cuz I have no mic

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader) to daviowa [Davi]: that's ok

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: I want to say something about NES teaching

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): go

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: NNESTS are the majority of English teachers -- NNESTs should be teaching in the education programs and teaching the teachers -- they are the ones who REALLY know what it is like to learn English

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: but what about NES who are learners of other languages?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: like Brock said...

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: they're ok, I guess.

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahahaha

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: I agree

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: you slay me karen

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): focus on the skills

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: so true, Davi

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: I agree

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: Our MA TESOL program has a ccourse "Language Learning Practicum" where NES  students have to tak a quarter to a foreign language they've never studied before and journal their expereinces as learners.

---------------------

daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: exactly! whether NS or NNS!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: can we change the dominant dialogue? -- focus on the skills, proficiency, experience, qualifications?

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: I take Brody's point about checking our lack of confidence and professional training achievement

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: so true

---------------------

geekyteacher [undisclosed] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: that's true

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: Oh, I wanted to send it to the room! Sorry!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: sometimes it is about getting in the door, though

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: have I been shut down?

---------------------

daviowa [Davi] to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: true

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: true

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader) to Karen.Rauser [Karen]: you need to send the message to ALL the ROOMs

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes it does

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I was disabled for a few minutes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): sorry

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: how do you propose that that will be changed, Tommy?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: exactly

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: and the notion of intercultural communication

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): true

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: maybe there should be a monolingual group started

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: or they think you're a hippie (NTTAWWT) backpacker in Asia

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: True, I have met many NES monolingual teachers who start learning a language to get some of the skills NNESTs have

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: very true - one step at a time...

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I think the monolinguals are MEST

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): lol

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: lol

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: haha

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: I think professional respect is a centuries-old discussion

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: wonderful!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: oooooooo

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Labelling professionals come from others parts of society

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): that's why we're here

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): lol

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: but it also behooves us to focus on teachers who are NOT competent

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: can we lead then?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: and the schools who hire them

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: I guess we're all anxious to see changes, but it's a slow process

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: TESOL is a professional organization and I think it is right that TESOL is concerning itself with this issue

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: that's why asociations are so important...they give us the strength we need to lead...?

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: TESOL is the best advocate

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: here in the east, too

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: yes

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: yes a lot of people teach while they are not professionals

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: volunteer teachers w/o training *can* do great work, though

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: true

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): Cooments ? Reactions?

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: tough one

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: so we risk instituting the tyrranny of bureaucracy & certification

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: The mandates that TESOL sets out hold a lot of weight -- like a papal decree

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: bull

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: (as in papal bull)?

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: lol

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: In Argentina to teach EFL you need a 4 year college teaching degree...is there a specific degree for ESL/EFL as widespread as that worldwide?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): that's what EVO is doing

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: it is helpful to have an international organization to advocate and to reference against discrimination

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Many colleagues in Chile don't know about TESOL in Chile

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: South America has had a lot of influence from the British Council; TESOL is relatively new...

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: sorry for the tangent

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: if the discrimination is to be fought, it is through taking into account the only professional competences and nothing else

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: sorry

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): Pamela,  sorry for what?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes!

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: out of place comment  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

Masakazu [Masakazu]: i do that all the time

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: great comment, Davi

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: yes!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): Go

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): go ahead Rabia

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: so I shouldn't feel quite as hostile towards the label?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): ok

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): that's good

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): good

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): As Paul Matsuda said in his article says, he wears' the label with pride... and I thnink I understand it.

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: that's GREAT!

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: good

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: very awesome

---------------------

Masakazu [Masakazu]: that's great

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): truw

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): true

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: NNESTs empowering gang!

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: Awesome, Tommy!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lead the way, brother

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: and we will be behind

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: ty

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I think the role of NESTs has changed with internet; widespread access to "authentic" communication and language has made the need to have a native speaker in the room not that needed?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: ELF

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): true

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: not to mention in different Englishes: i.e LOL, BRB

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: it used to be the case that NESTs were valued as "walking language models"...kind of a language zoo specimen?  

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: authentic English is English that is used... thank you Davi

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): Fake Speaker of English = FSE, we can do something with that!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Pamela -- lol

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahaha

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol - FSE

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: exactly, Karen!

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I think it's not a coincidence that we're bringing up these issues when there's this possibility of getting together and talk like right now, and we find out we all have the same issues all over the world...

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: Amen!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: are we at a critical point, then, Brock in our history -- is the window open now for changing the label?

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]:  

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: "something that has to change" -- love it

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): lol

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]:  

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: it's opened me to living with it more than before

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: ooops

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: tommy, me too.

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: the problem, i think is not the label but the conception

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: sorry

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: my audio not working (can't hear or talk!)

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: the lesson of "queer" might be that labels aren't as influential as we might think

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: maybe, Rabia, the controversy of the label really helps to open the dialogue

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): try again davi

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): sorry, where was that electric shock!

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: yes you are right

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): try now

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: BZZZZZZZT!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: not working...??

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): no

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: no

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): I'm definitly off so others should be able to come on.

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: no

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: whatever label we choose will raise controversy

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: No?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: no one's on according to the display

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: good, as long as that happens

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: mute

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yse

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: yep

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

geekyteacher [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: I think that Queer has been 'taken on' by the LGBT community, so I do think it's possible for NNESTs to do the same

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): yes

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I think the label might be useful in that it's turning into some kind of "identity badge" we use internationally to recognize people with our same issues, and work together...

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Luci Moussu would not be happy....

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahaha

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: lol

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol!

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: lol

---------------------

Masakazu [Masakazu]: lol

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: bt her passion is admirable

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: that's true, I remember her comments on the listserv!!!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: It really is a tough one

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: audio back (i think)

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): paul Matsuda says- wear the badge with pride

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: but changing the label won't change those people

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): go ahead

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: IF it is to change -- maybe it would have to be hyphentated for a while --- NNEST/DEST

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: they (we) could gather under a new label

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: So...professional teachers of global English? PTGE?  

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: the IS formerly known as NNEST?

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: can you hear me?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: A potage, if you will?

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Hahahaha

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): no davi

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: no, davi

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: no

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: yes

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: yes

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: the artist formerly known as Prince?  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): but that's a long term, karen

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: yes!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): lol Davi, no we can't hear YES YES

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: so true, Davi

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes: but with the name change comes a duty to spread the word

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: true Tommy

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: that's what I thought too!!!!!

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: that's an excellent point

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: it's a very welcoming term on first sight

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I even wrote an article for my local EFL teachers association about it!  

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: yes, we need a place to start!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Katya -- would you have had that feeling with another label -- could something else have communicated that sense to you?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yay pamela

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): katya?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): It's hard to say now. I am very comfortable with the lable and wear it with pride.

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: maybe Katya and Pamela's point in important precisely BECAUSE it matters more to those who haven't seen it yet

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I think the label didn't care as much as what has just been said, the feeling of "BINGO!"

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): Good point--I don't think 'translingual would resonate with anyone--even if it is accurate--resonance is an issue to consider.  Brock

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: that has been my findings with my own NNEST colleagues - I am more uncomfortable with it than they are

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: right

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: but wouldn't we like a term that embraces more the notion of qualification than place of birth?

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: yeah, because for NNESTs, at least in my cae, it's a fact, I don't feel any less of a teacher because of it.

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): brock?

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: Although employers would like me to to pay me less  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): go ahead

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): That;s so true, Pamela!

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: hopefully we won't end up with a 15 letter acronym!!!!  

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: like I said -- hyphenate it -- we could be like Bromley's hyphenated people

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: NNEST - PTGE

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): I am here reading.  Brock

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: the third space

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): rofl

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: that's at least 27 letters

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: lol

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahahaha

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: lol

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: potage-lol

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): lol

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: uhh... that was Pamelas -- Professional teachers of Global English -- I think I got it mixed up though

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: excellent

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: I have to pick up my daughter from school soon. When is it OK to leave?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): that's good

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: i like the name

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: brock wrap up?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1) to Session Leader, Session Leader 2, Session Leader 1: Yes, please!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): NNEST-PTGE

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: I see no reason we couldn't have NNEST-PTGE, and let the next generation argue about changing it again 20 years hence

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: um tum tum tum

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: we'll ask Ahmar if it is better than Anglophones R' US

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): LOL

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I like it. A tongue twister...let's see how proficient we are and put it in a sentence  

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: but think about this, even our own organization is Teaching English to Speakers of OTHER languages... hummm

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): Brock?

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Davi..... don't go there....

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: somewhat otherizing...

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: pretty hard to teach to speakers of NO languages

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: lol!!!!!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): lol

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahahaha

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: lol

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): not ever again

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: all 11 of us....

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: sorry, playing Devil's advocate

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: with a great lesson

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]:  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: that song

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahahaha

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]:  

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: lol

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: lol

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: lol

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: with a Hyphen NNEST

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: does "teacher" have to be qualified by "skilled" or "professional"?

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: both

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: right

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: as opossed to hitchhiker who took a TEFL course...

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: doesn't that contribute to the devaluing of our profession, suggesting there are teachers who are neither?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: but that person ISN'T a teacher

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: maybe a compilation of ALL of the alternative labels on survey monkey

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: great point

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: true...again the "otherization"...

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: oops...

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I also still like DEST -- DESTiny

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): final comments anyone

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Brock's Diverse English Speaking Teachers

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: let's do like the French and say 'Anglophones'

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: My final comment: I'm SOOOOO happy!  I can't stop smiling!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: me, too! Thank you! You have all enriched me!

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: I want to thank everybody too! This has been great.

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): clap hands

---------------------

Masakazu [Masakazu]: thanks to all !

---------------------

geekyteacher [undisclosed]: clap clap clap

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: Thank you Brock and all!!!

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: Thank you Katya!!!

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: is that a portrait, brock?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Thank you, you all were great!

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: Thank you, Aiden!

---------------------

rabiael [rabia]: bye

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): Bye all, Brock

---------------------

PamelaArraras [Pamela]: bye

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): you're welcome

---------------------

geekyteacher [undisclosed]: bye!

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Bye evry one

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: bye-thanks aiden, brock,and katya!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: hahahaha!

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahahaha

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: thanks, Aiden!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: TOMMY!

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: I appreciate your volunteering to organize all this and contribute to our discussions

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: see you next week

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: and on email!

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: great!

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Bye

---------------------

daviowa [Davi]: good night/day everyone!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): Thank Aiden--so much work!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: bye!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): bye

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): Aiden, I've got to run to a f2f discussion group.  Thank you.  Bye

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Good luck with your new job, Mr. President Elect~!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: thank you, Aiden!


Comments from the live session participants

 

Benjamin: Message 186

 

Aiden,

I left more Elluminated about NNESTs after this !st Live Session, I

had some technical audio problems for connecting during Katya's

presentation ( so I hope to review the recording soon), but I could

finally solve this technical impasse and could follow Brock's session

perfectly well...

My colleagues contributed with interesting ideas and proposals to

enrich the 2nd topic What's in a name?

Congrats!

 

Dora: Message 188

Hi! I wanted to know if there is any possibility to post the audio of

today's session in a downloadable form. I was not able to stay at the

pc during the whole session (it was dinner time here in Argentina).

Thanks in advance!

Dora

 

Brock: Message 189

Hi everybody,

That was a great session. I apologize for not being a better

facilitator. I had never gone back and forth between voice and text chat

before, and I found it difficult to stay on top of your text comments

and the thread of the talk at the same time.

BUT it was a very nice discussion and I felt that we all developed a

better sense of the complexity of the issue--and of the emotions that

accompany it.

What is most important is that I feel like I have a whole new group of

friends and colleagues and hope I will someday have an opportunity to

meet each of you face to face.

My best and we'll interact more in the following weeks.

Brock

 

Masakazu: Message 190

Hi, Brock.

I think you did a great job. I'm sure that everybody feels the same way.

I sincerely extend my gratitude to all the facilicators for organizing such a

vibrant discussion tonight.

Thank you so much again!

Kaz

 

Katya: Message 191

I just wanted to thank everybody for a wonderful life session today! It was my

first experience with an online presentation of this kind, an although it was a

bit confusing at times to speak, try to answer questions, and follow the chat

messages at the same time, I think it all went very well. I hope we'll continue

talking about NNEST online, but I am looking forward for a chance for us all to

meet each other for real.

Thanks again and let's keep networking.

Katya


 

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