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Week-3

Page history last edited by Ana Wu 11 years, 1 month ago


 

Click here to read a summary of the asynchronous discussion with Prof. Suresh Canagarajah.

 

 

Outline - Week 3 [ Jan 26- Feb 03]

Discussion on World Englishes (English varieties, ELT in Asia)

 

Guest speakers:   Suresh Canagarajah, Globalization and English: Redesigning Pedagogies in ELT

                            Yi-lin Sun,  Non-Native Speakers Navigating the System in North America.

                              

In the third week, participants will: 

1. Participate in a discussion with Suresh Canagarajah.

2. Engage in a live discussion with Yilin Sun

 

Discussion with Suresh Canagarajah - Globalization and English: Redesigning Pedagogies in ELT  

(please go to yahoogroups)

 

Jan. 26-29

 

In the context of Internet, globalization, diaspora communities, and multinational production networks, postmodern subjects are constantly required to shuttle between diverse communities and English varieties. As a result, the demography of English speakers is changing, and English is used “mainly in multilingual contexts as a second language and for communication between non-native speakers” with the “decline of the native speaker” (Graddol, 1999, p.57). Therefore, scholars in ELT are beginning to abandon the distinctions “native”/”nonnative” or “standard”/”nonstandard” and treat everyone as speakers of Global English--a multinational language, featuring a plural grammatical system with diverse norms and conventions in different communities. We are beginning to realize that everyone needs a repertoire of English codes to negotiate postmodern communication. 

 

But how can a classroom teach the multiple codes required for postmodern communication? We have to consider a paradigm shift in language teaching. These changing pedagogical priorities imply that we should begin to develop language awareness rather than grammatical correctness (in a single variety); strategies (of learning, social negotiation, and discourse) rather than product-oriented rules; a 

sociolinguistic sensitivity to context and variability rather than the mastery of the abstract linguistic system. Rather than judging divergence as error, we should orientate to it as an exploration of choices and possibilities. Rather than teaching rules in a normative way, we should teach strategies--creative ways to negotiate the norms operating in diverse contexts.

 

Voice, World Englishes, and writing instruction

Part 1

YouTube plugin error

 

 

Part 2

YouTube plugin error

 

Click here to read a summary of the asynchronous discussion with Prof. Suresh Canagarajah.

 


Yilin Sun's online session will discuss challenges, successes as well as strategies that NNESTers have used in navigating different higher educational systems in North America. Case studies will also be used to engage interactive participation.

 

Online Discussion with Yi-lin Sun - Non-native Speakers Navigating the System in North America

 

Jan 30-Feb 3 

 

More and more NNESters are working in the higher education institutions and involved with national and international professional organiations such as TESOL.  The speaker in this session will discuss challenges, successes as well as strategies that NNESTers have used in navigating different systems in North America  including opportunities for employment in the higher education institutions, professional development and graduate studies. Case studies will be used to engage interactive participation.   
Questions:
·        What are the challenges that NNESters face on our journey of navigating the Higher Ed systems in America and other English-speaking countries?
·        What are some successful startegies that NNESTers have used? How can their experience and strategies help you in navigating the system?
·        What are your personal successes, strategies and challenges?
 

Live session, Jan 30, 6 pm (USA Wahington, Seattle) or 2 AM GMT/Jan 31, Saturday

        See time and date conversion here, http://tinyurl.com/yilin-live
 

Powerpoint Presentation 

 

slide errorPlugin error: That plugin is not available.

 

Session Recording

Jan 30, 2009, [Fri] 08:23 PM Eastern (EST, North America/US) (02:22:09)[5.3003 MB]

 

https://sas.elluminate.com/p.jnlp?psid=2009-01-30.1823.M.7AE801FFB697DA460D4BF25AA8C21B.vcr

 

TEXT CHAT

 

Read here the text chat from the live session:

 

Moderator (Session Leader 2): I can start any time

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): we can hear some noise

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Can you hear me?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): no

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Moderator (Session Leader): turn up your mic/audio level

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): hi alisa

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Can you hear me now?

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): no, yilin...

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Moderator (Session Leader): no

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Let me try again

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: try again

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): I just did

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: i can't hear anything right now

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): no...

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: we can hear static

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wolke [undisclosed]: Can't hear voices, only static, that's right

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: Only 3 people said yes? ooooohhhh

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): I heard a click sound

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes, but we have others who didn't answer the poll, elisenda...

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: yes

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wolke [undisclosed]: heard sth

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): I did

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: i can her someone talking

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): I can hear you well

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): hi terry

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): I just did

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: Hi Terry!!  

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: I am not sure how this works, if I talk can ppl hear me?

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Sould i plug the red one on, too?

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): alisa, if you click the microphone, you have the floor

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: red is usually mic

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: no problm

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Hi, Elisenda

 

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): take your time, yilin!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Now I have both the pink and the green one plugged

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aliciabarbitta [undisclosed]: hi...it's ok

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: yes

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): hi aliciabarbita

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wolke [undisclosed]: yes

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: yeaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Great!

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Moderator (Session Leader): Yilin, please release the mic

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Moderator (Session Leader): you're talking

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Moderator (Session Leader): we can't talk

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): i did

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): claps hands

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: wow!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): let the participants introduce themselves

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): Yilin let the participants introduce themselves

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): thanks, elisenda!

---------------------

Maro0n [Elisenda]:  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): hi benjamin

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Moderator (Session Leader): no audio

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: ditto

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aliciabarbitta [undisclosed]: nop

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Sorry for being  late

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: ditto?¿

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): no problem

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Moderator (Session Leader): hi ben!

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): I heard someone don't have the audio

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: ditto=same here, me too

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: aaaaa! Thanks

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: hi!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

aliciabarbitta [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): aiden: I can't record. Are you recording?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Greetings from chile to every one

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): please

---------------------

Maro0n [Elisenda]: yes

---------------------

aliciabarbitta [undisclosed]: Greetings from Uruguay!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Hello, Everyone! Welcome to the session -Yilin

 

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Yes

---------------------

Maro0n [Elisenda]: yes

---------------------

alisatu831 [Alisa]: yes

---------------------

aliciabarbitta [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Yes

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Can you all hear me?

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wolke [undisclosed]: how to read the cases?

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): What do you think about the case study and the questions?

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Moderator (Session Leader): Kim's story

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Moderator (Session Leader): Tommy did

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): great. Any thoughts?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: just calling up my notes now

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yilin, you can release the micro for the participatns to speak

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: I replied to the questions in our forum.

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Moderator (Session Leader): if you want the participants to speak release the mic

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: hello

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): release the mic

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

---------------------

alisatu831 [Alisa]: yes

---------------------

Maro0n [Elisenda]: yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): yes

---------------------

aliciabarbitta [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Yes

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): hi karen

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: yes I can hear you

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wolke [undisclosed]: where can i read the stories?

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes, it's fictional

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: Wolke, it is in the material

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: fro week 3

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wolke [undisclosed]: how to access it pls?

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: in our wiki and EVo page

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: I sent you the link, wait

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wolke [undisclosed]: k, i'll try later, tx!

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Moderator (Session Leader): http://nnest-evo2009.pbwiki.com/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=Week%203

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: ok, someone's quicker than me!

---------------------

Maro0n [Elisenda]:  

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): http://nnest-evo2009.pbwiki.com/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=Week%203

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Moderator (Session Leader): i agree Tommy

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Moderator (Session Leader): reality

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Moderator (Session Leader): right

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: horrific, then

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): you say fabricated in a sense that you collected bits?

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): It's still there

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: reminds me of george braine's story

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Moderator (Session Leader): very similar

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): That's just one of many

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Moderator (Session Leader): ok

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): ok

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: great

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Hi moderator, I'm sorry that I am completely new here.  I want to read the article, but I dont know where can I find it. (I receive the email and signed up for to this chat immediately..)

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): mic please

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wolke [undisclosed]: scroll up

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): alisa, can you click http://nnest-evo2009.pbwiki.com/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=Week%203

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wolke [undisclosed]: i'm reading it

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Thank you so much

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): yes, please share your experience here

 

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: now?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: or are we coming back to it?

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Moderator (Session Leader): no, tomorrow, Tommy! yes, now  

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: haha

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): yes, we can come back to it later

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): lol

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Tommy's conflicted identity

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Moderator (Session Leader): lol, Karen

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Hi Karen, welcome to the session

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): tommy, briefly tell us your background

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Yeah, eh!

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): as a dutch, how are you challenged as a nnest?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): well, because of your looks

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): lol

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Moderator (Session Leader): thAT explains the leaf  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): thanks for sharing

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Thanks for sharing

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: thanks

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Moderator (Session Leader): physical looks

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: that's right

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Moderator (Session Leader): that look

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Moderator (Session Leader): ok

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes, think of sb like me (brazilian chinese...)

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: they face similar problems as NESTs who *don't* have the look, maybe

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): ok

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): right

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Totally agree!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes--sometimes it's a cultural imperative

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): exactly

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Also, when we really tried hard to fit in, we will be isolated by our fellows (from teh same countries) -- different values

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aliciabarbitta [undisclosed]: the hardest

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Moderator (Session Leader): i agree, Alisa

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aliciabarbitta [undisclosed]: most educational places request NS,no room for NNS

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: sometimes it starts with one...

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: wow

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Moderator (Session Leader): from Mars

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Moderator (Session Leader): i thought only men are from mars  

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: lol

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: sometimes it's still aspoken rule

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Moderator (Session Leader): right

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wolke [undisclosed]: what they do is to say "native-speaker proficiency required"

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: whatever that means

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wolke [undisclosed]: but which native speaker's?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: K-12 education in E required

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Moderator (Session Leader): this connects to Suresh's topic

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): World Englishes

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Some teacher inmy school connected accent and ability to teacher writing

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Moderator (Session Leader): right, terry- so publications are important

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Yes, right.

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: they often get supportive when their teachers get published

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: ah yes, often I am the token Canadian...

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: heehee

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: hahahaha

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: like you know all about all Asians

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Can you explain more about being as a tocken, please

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: that's bizarre, Yilin

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wolke [undisclosed]: token means you just have one to show that you're tolerant, diverse etc

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wolke [undisclosed]: or a small number, just for show

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Alisa, often administrators hire teachers who are ethnically or linguistically diverse to "show" that they are equal opportunity employers... but they just hire one or two...

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: like the only little black boy on South Park, who's name is "Token"

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: South Park... hahaha! long time I haven't remembered them :-D

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: because they are used to NNESTs being invisible, they often see any kind of initiative as aggressive

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: tommy -- lol

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Yilin, I am right now teachign a class to international post-docs/visiting scholars a class on "Speaking and Listening in the Workplace"--they often ask how do we decide what makes a response/comment/phrase direct--rude--impolite?

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wolke [undisclosed]: and they assume that a non-white is therefore an NNS or NNEST

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes, karen: "those uppity nigras"

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: You're totally right, Yilin, I don't know how to answer that question

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wolke [undisclosed]: alisa, that's more pragmatics

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: I want them to hold their own identities but I also know they probably should be accultrated if they want to "fit-in"

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Moderator (Session Leader): seek opportunity!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: give them the tools, they can choose to use them or not

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: don't wait: seek, seek!  knock knock!

 

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wolke [undisclosed]: karen: yes

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened

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Moderator (Session Leader): get to know you

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Moderator (Session Leader): right

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): hi karen

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: I'm sorry but I'm very tired... Everything is very interesting but being nearly 4am I'm sleepy... Sorry! Im happy to be here part of the talk. I¡ll listen to it tomorrow, please record as usual eh!    Good night to everybody and thanks!!!! -sorry, my eyes can't literally be opened for more time...- Bye!  

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: those NS are going to fall behind someday...

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: OR superior

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: g'night Eli

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Maro0n [Elisenda]:    bye pple

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Karen.Rauser [Karen] to Maro0n [Elisenda]: night Elisenda!

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Maro0n [Elisenda]: enjoy this session! Nice to meet  you Yilin

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Maro0n [Elisenda]:  

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Thank you Good night

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: My roommate from Taiwan said the same thing about being a "foreign stduent

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: no hands now

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: networks... very good

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: But Yilin, once we Asian students do so, ppl call us Asian "circles"

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Exactly!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Good point Alisa

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: becoming... ethnographers

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): hi grazzie

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grazzie [Grazzia Maria]: hello I had a hard time getting in

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: also: pressure your institutions to address NNEST needs

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: I recently had a conversation with my American friends, and they told me "don't you think TESOL program is a glorified ELP"!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Hope you are okay now

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): but now you are here (grazzie)! you made it

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grazzie [Grazzia Maria]: yep

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wolke [undisclosed]: alisa, even so, so what?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Alisa -- Whoa!

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: I know!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: you'll show them up when you graduate

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: unfortunately -- TESOL programs don't usually work on language proficiency very much at all

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Good point karen

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: that is left to the wisdom of the individual students

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: yes, karen

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wolke [undisclosed]: you mean grad tesol programs or the ones we teach?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: When in actual fact, NS teacher trainees need the training in Language proficiency even more than the NNESTS

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wolke [undisclosed]: huh???

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): how come?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: In graduate TESOL programs

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: NS don't realize how bad they are at English

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): in grammar?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes, Yilin: leadership from within!

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wolke [undisclosed]: haha!

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): That's right!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: absolutely --

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wolke [undisclosed]: karen, when you say that, aren't you subscribing to their prescription?

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Moderator (Session Leader): Terry is here!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: sorry, wolke, I'm not sure you read me right...?

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): welcome Terry!

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Tnhanks

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wolke [undisclosed]: karen: ns sometimes don't know their english is bad -> according to ns standards

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): and TESOL graduate students are not required to take grammar classes

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wolke [undisclosed]: but i guess i know what you mean -> pot calling the kettle black?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: pretty sure this is a whole nuther conversation!  

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Moderator (Session Leader 1):  

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Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: will continue after session..

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Going alone with Tommy's point, I really think language awareness (or awareness in general) is very important for TESOL students (or NNESTers)

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wolke [undisclosed]: on grammar classes: depends on program

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wolke [undisclosed]: some programs have quite a bit of linguistics

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Isn't it difficult for NNESTers to teach "cultural nuamces"..

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wolke [undisclosed]: depends

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): not really once you are in it

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): I don't think so too

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I think it is sometimes more valuable from someone who has learned it already

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: on the contrary, i think in some instances it's easier for us than for those NESs on the inside

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wolke [undisclosed]: can be

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I have to learn it inside out... sometimes harder

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: true! Yilin

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wolke [undisclosed]: like the NS not knowing his/her own language! lol

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Because NNS have better IC competnece

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wolke [undisclosed]: not always

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes terry

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: uhh.. exactly wolke

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wolke [undisclosed]: yilin, YES!

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wolke [undisclosed]: bec they sometimes think NNES are dumb or sth

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wolke [undisclosed]: "shyness" is not directly proportional to one's first language/culture

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: it's more a personality issue

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: most institutions want faculty to put research projects ahead of students, no?

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wolke [undisclosed]: depends

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wolke [undisclosed]: most institutions want grants, and foreign students who pay full tuition i think

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: And shyness depends on whether your are speaking or wring e-mails

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wolke [undisclosed]: yes

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: yes... excellent people! I agree!

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wolke [undisclosed]: i think having a veteran introduce you to the network helps to ease you into a new environment too

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: very true

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): you are right: time consuming, but the rewards are endless    Just think of this workshop: we have people from so many countries/background

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: the mentor thing is important

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: it's built into the system here at UofA

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): how do you convince ns to collaborate with nnes?

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: joining TESOL interest section maillist is also a good way too! I am always amazed at the many people who are so enthusiastically responding to questions/feedback

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: befriend them

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: give them chocolates

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wolke [undisclosed]: i think as with everybody else, you need to show some commitment and humility first - in response to "session leader 1"

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): i see

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: dark chocolates

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): dark 72% chocolate

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wolke [undisclosed]: we shouldn't assume that NS are naturally unfriendly or ignorant etc

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: mmm... 80%

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: lol

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): no, that's not the point. i mean in terms of benefits

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: thank you again, wolke

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wolke [undisclosed]: oh, preach to them! lol

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wolke [undisclosed]: for me personally, i study the topic and share with them what i've found, in as non-intrusive a way as possible

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wolke [undisclosed]: i think often it can blow them!  

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wolke [undisclosed]: away that is  

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: truly...

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): about collaboration: let's wait for Lia Kamhi-Stein and Luciana de Oliveira's session (week 5)

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): thanks!

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: Excellent experience sharing Yilin

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): tommy

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Moderator (Session Leader): go ahead

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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wolke [undisclosed]: thanks for sharing!  

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Moderator (Session Leader): anyone who wants to take the mic

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

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wolke [undisclosed]: i actually have one question

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wolke [undisclosed]: how do we diffentiate NS from NNS?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: wolke -- lol!

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wolke [undisclosed]: i'm serious, 'cos i don't know whether i'm NS or NNS

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Thanks.  This is wonderful - something I can share with my stduent teashers, who are non-native teachers"

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: wolke - I don't think you should have to choose

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wolke [undisclosed]: i never thot so either, until i have to find a teaching job!  

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): ns/nnes: in some cases, it is a matter of self-identity

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes!

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wolke [undisclosed]: i'm just a good english speaker, eh?  

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: not too ambitious!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol, eh

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): go ahead

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Moderator (Session Leader): anyone else who wants to talk?

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Moderator (Session Leader): mic please

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): aiden?   )

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wolke [undisclosed]: do you think NNS discriminate against their own kind?

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Moderator (Session Leader): no mic Samantha?

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grazzie [Grazzia Maria]: definitely

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wolke [undisclosed]: sorry, no mic

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grazzie [Grazzia Maria]: I've seen it and experienced it

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wolke [undisclosed]: do you thinnk nns discriminate agst their own kind?

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): do you think NNS discriminate against their own kind?

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): Yes,

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

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Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Sure

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wolke [undisclosed]: can you give some instances?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Yilin, how do you feel about the label itself -- is it a hindrance to the emerging confidence of the "translinguistic English instructor"?

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): go ahead

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Moderator (Session Leader): systems

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: oh yeah... very different

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Moderator (Session Leader): near

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wolke [undisclosed]: karen, what's "translinguistic english instructor"?

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: haha!

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alisatu831 [Alisa]: the American born asians s,times (in TESOL program) descriminate NNS (asians) -- my experience-- still can't generalize everyone though

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Samantha -- it's an alternate label I've been trying for NNESTs

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Moderator (Session Leader): i think there are similarities

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Moderator (Session Leader): right

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): go ahead

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: one was mine leftover, sorry

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: the hands should really unclick when we get the mic

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Moderator (Session Leader 1):  

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: rewrite the program, tommy

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: for example?

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grazzie [Grazzia Maria]: what about students who discriminate theri NNES teachers

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: that's great!

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wolke [undisclosed]: ABSOLUTELY!

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: out of how many?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: did it feel like tokenism?

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): I wouldn't say discriminate, but being at first ignorant.. does it count?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: ty

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wolke [undisclosed]: i haven't quite personally experienced the discrimination but certainly it exists...they prolly get fed all sorts of weird ideas from dunno-who!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: has anyone else studied in the inner circle?

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wolke [undisclosed]: me

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I don't think I count... but yes

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: i think you count inasmuch as you have valid observations

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wolke [undisclosed]: but what about multilingual speakers?

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wolke [undisclosed]: i have several first languages, and was educated in english but in an OC country

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Moderator (Session Leader): it still all boils down to personality and qualifications

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: I agree, Yilin, often the initial resistance of students to a NNS is changed very quickly when they realize the competence factor

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Yes, I agree!!

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wolke [undisclosed]: karen: that's my personal experience

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: i don't need t be an israeli student to see they can feel cowered in my classroom filled with germans and saudis

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wolke [undisclosed]: not just competence but also personality

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wolke [undisclosed]: when they know you're professional and don't boss around just bec you're white!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes: it all comes back to competence

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Moderator (Session Leader): right Samantha

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: but what if people are resistant to seeing that competence

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Moderator (Session Leader 2): I'd think that's ignorant

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Moderator (Session Leader): use the mic please

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: I think that's the crux of what yilin identifies as needing change

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: It depends on what the teacher can do, and students will come to aprrexciate good teachers and leave their prejudices

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wolke [undisclosed]: tommy: kinda hard, eh?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): no mic Terry?

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Yes, I do... but I'm shy.

 

---------------------

alisatu831 [Alisa]: bye everyone, I had to leave (nice to talk to you all)

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): bye

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wolke [undisclosed]: bye, have a good weekend!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): by Alisa

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): terry, don't be shy

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Thanks.

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Amen, Yilin

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Yes, right on!

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: yeah, educate the NS!

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: and the NNS students

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Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Yes, it's about time they (we) started doing some of the work

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): go ahead

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): go ahead

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: That was Katya

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: sorry folks, gotta go! have a good weekend,  everybody, and thank so much, yilin!  

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: thanks

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): bye

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Samantha... could we get your profile?

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: like?

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wolke [undisclosed]: can i put it somewhere? how?

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: can't find you in themembers..

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: How do I indicate I want to speak?

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: am new, how to do that?

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: raise hand

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: click the little hand icon, terry

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Moderator (Session Leader): raise your hand (near smiley)

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes!

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Moderator (Session Leader): mic please

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Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nnest_evo2009/

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): go ahead

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): Terry?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): terry, click the mic icon

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: when it's 'yellowed' you can speak

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): mic icon below

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Go ahead Terry

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: eh, no sound?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): don't be shy Terry

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Moderator (Session Leader 1): no

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Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Can you ehar me?

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: no sound

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Moderator (Session Leader): no

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: nope

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Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: join the group -- email me if you need some help: karenrauser@yahoo.com

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): turn your audio level up

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: press ctrl F2

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Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: oops.. that wasn't meant fo ryou samantha

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: is there a teenager in the room: we need a techie!

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: hey karen, are you the moderator?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): press CTL + F2

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: nope!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: Aiden and Ana are

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): go ahead, terry

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): there you go

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen] to wolke [undisclosed]: YEAH!!!!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: sound!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): ok we can hear you

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes!

---------------------

wolke [undisclosed]: yes

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yay terry!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: yep!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): release the mic Terry

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wolke [undisclosed]: can i send a record of the messages here to an email address or sth?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): click it again

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Could you hear my question?

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: colleagues are often resistant/apathetic, it's true

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Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

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Moderator (Session Leader): click the mic again Terry

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): My mic is not working

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): ok

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): yes

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yes!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: NS can be very effective in reaching other unenlightened NS

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: also invite NNESTs to tell their stories, and get colleagues to attend

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Thanks!!!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Yeah, Terry -- a true Horton!

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tommynomad [undisclosed]: do you feel like you're making a dent, terry?

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Thanks, Ana!

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Moderator (Session Leader 1):  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): IS  

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Moderator (Session Leader): right

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): lol

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1):  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Building community with both NS and NNSters is the way to go!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): hi giselle

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Yes, I agree. Building a community of people among those who are interested and passionate about these issues.

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Absolutely!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): go ahead

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): go ahead

---------------------

GiselleRobitaille [Giselle]: hello! Nice to be here -I will just mostly be listening as I do not have a mike. Interesting topic..

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): terry, your hand is raised

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: where are you Giselle?

---------------------

GiselleRobitaille [Giselle]: I am in Nova

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): Canada?

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: No, how do I lower my hand?

---------------------

GiselleRobitaille [Giselle]: Scotia whoops Nova Scotia.

---------------------

GiselleRobitaille [Giselle]: yes.

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Bienvenue

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): click the hand icon, terry

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Another Canadian - 

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Thanks!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: NOW we are taking over

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): lol

---------------------

GiselleRobitaille [Giselle]: I am have just finished a paper on NNEST and one thing that really struck me was how essential experiencial knowledge was to their teaching.

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Just... THANK YOU!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): lol

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1):  

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: just cause you take so long to get to the point...  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Yes, I will

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Thank you so much for this presentation - and giving me the opportunity to learn abiout this kind of forum.

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: HEY!  I resemble that remark

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: lol

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: me too!

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: tyvm!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1):  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): mic please

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Thanks sao much to Ana and Aiden!!!!!!!!

---------------------

GiselleRobitaille [Giselle]: thank you and nice to get some a view of this forum.

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): mic please

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Thank you all! It has been so wonderful talking with you all!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yilin, mic please

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: Just so that you are all joined up... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nnest_evo2009/

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Or dinner time... and my Mom is waiting.

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: what/when's next time, Aiden and Ana?

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: Thank you

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): sorry, next session?

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Bye and Thank you everyone!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): Bye all!

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: yep

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): it's ahmar, on thursday (CA time)

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: great, thatnks!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Hope to see you at TESOL 2009!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): thanks, aiden

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: c u thursday, everyone!

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Yes!!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: cyou all!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): We should get -together - 

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): bye all

---------------------

Benjamin_trauko [Benjamin]: see you

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: thank you yilin!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]: off to a date with my patient hubby

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): aiden, i will copy the text chat

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): let's continue our discussion on Yahoo! Group

---------------------

tommynomad [undisclosed]: i'm gonna rock out to the Go-gos

---------------------

Terrymichael [undisclosed]: Bye, everyone!!!

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): lol

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 1): please, tommy, do so

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader): bye guys

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Have a nice date Karen!

---------------------

Karen.Rauser [Karen]:  

---------------------

Moderator (Session Leader 2): Thank you Aiden and Ana!

 

 

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